The Last of Us 2 Isn't That Bad - You Guys Are Just Dumb

25 Th06, 2020
1 200 542 lượt xem

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NHẬN XÉT
  • You should change the tittle

    Callum TorranceCallum Torrance10 tháng trước
    • Wow half dislikes to likes. This is divisive as hell, and he's right, it's all the title. Because you kind of shit on the game and say contradictory things about both of them.

      Glenn DaveyGlenn Davey6 ngày trước
    • It's a bit condescending and dismissive

      Alcoholic GoatAlcoholic GoatTháng trước
    • @Spoder Guy that’s a shit analogy. What might taste like shit to you may taste like heaven to somebody else. If you chose not to buy the game because other people told you it’s bad then that’s great! That’s what reviews are for. My point is, don’t go jumping on the hate train, bashing the game, when you haven’t experienced it for yourself.

      Savion SSavion S2 tháng trước
    • @Savion S yes because if someone tells you the cake is made of, shit looks like shit and smells like shit I would totally buy the cake to see if it is shit

      Spoder GuySpoder Guy2 tháng trước
    • @The Cosmonaut Variety Hour yep because you're a narcissist in need of attention so you won't do that

      Levi MatthewsLevi Matthews2 tháng trước
  • I normally agree with a lot of what you say but this video still annoys me. Joel is a flawed character, that’s why he’s beloved. He’s a hardened survivor that wouldn’t turn his back to a room of strangers. That’s why his death annoys us. Abby kills Joel in an admittedly great scene but then we are expected to like her(or at least understand her). The themes are all over the place and seem to change throughout the story. A death can be very impactful but if they are loved it has to feel earned. Joel’s death did not feel earned. Yes it’s great when a game forces a specific story but it has to feel like something the characters would actually do. Ellie and Joel don’t feel like Ellie and Joel in this game

    King KashKing Kash40 phút trước
  • Yeah i love encounters with human with with zombies im kinda bored. I wish TLOU3 will have more humans encounters such as Scars' Island, i love that

    Not MeNot Me4 giờ trước
  • Joel is a beloved hero =/= People are mad because Joel died. Pick one.

    Lord MintyLord Minty4 giờ trước
  • How to receive people making deals with Satan to kill you in 20-minutes and 39 seconds

    Red spartanRed spartan6 giờ trước
  • the fucking bonk noise when abby hits joels head killed me lmfao

    ContradictionContradiction13 giờ trước
  • I don't know if you are joking or not 😂

    SpartanOliSpartanOliNgày trước
  • I get where marcus is coming from but how the story was told wasnt the best. I understand that it's about forgiveness but it's not executed well. You go on this whole chunk of the game as Ellie Abby kills your friend even makes you believe she killed Tommy then BLAME you now play as abby. Lol I mean wth??? Bitch I dont give a shit about her go back to ellie. But no now you got to slong through a crap ton of time as her. It's so polarizing it's a big turn off for me. The game tries so hard to get you to understand, care, sympathize pick your word for it and I just dont care. The game spends SO MUCH time making you hate her then you play as her and it basically gave me whiplash. By the time of the end I still didnt care for her still wanted ellie to kill her I understand what the game was trying to tell me but my brain was screaming at me how freaking retard it was told.

    Aaron DolneyAaron DolneyNgày trước
  • I feel that I partially agree with your argument that the game could've been played more chronologically more constantly switching between ellie and abby, but I feel like the story should be split in half. Like I think it makes sense to keep Ellie consistently on this aggressive drive to kill and get revenge to the point where essentially... Abby and her crew is faceless. Not literally faceless but I mean like they're just propped as 'the monsters that killed joel,' instead of real people. I think that if we saw them as real people as we went on this rage killing kinda would ruin how we as players want to be as Ellie. Like trying to cultivate empathy and rage at the same time might get messy. I think it would make more sense that it's first rage, then empathy.

    Bailey LeeBailey LeeNgày trước
  • Ltou 2 is that bad . And we are not dumb .

    ITzVD Iz HERE!ITzVD Iz HERE!Ngày trước
  • 7:57 im sorry but thats so stupid, he was sparing her the harsh truth with a comforting lie, Joel is all she has you idiot

    T BrownT BrownNgày trước
  • hey comment section Vaas is one of the most popular and iconic video game villains and sense he's evil is not beloved, some philosophy you got there cosmonaut you idiot

    T BrownT BrownNgày trước
  • This trainwreck has been out for a long time and so many people still don't understand or care to learn why its deservingly hated. How can so many "fans" of the first game claim to be okay with this abomination of a sequel when it baits us with false trailers and butchers beloved characters? If Tyler1 can see this game for the trash it is then the morons who desperately fail to defend this game aren't very bright.

    Ollin Santa CruzOllin Santa Cruz2 ngày trước
  • Dude that last bit killed me 💀

    Ethan KoesterEthan Koester2 ngày trước
  • Cosmonaut: Batman should never kill even though Batman killed in the Burton and Nolan films. Also Bill Finger and Bob Kane had Batman use a gun and kill people in the comics in Batman's first 2 years. Also the 60s Batman killed one guy by kicking him out of existence. Soviet Batman was an anarchist terrorist who blew Soviet citizens and soldiers up with bombs! Batman Who Laughs murders people! The Grim Knight uses guns and kills people! These insane pathetic fanboys need to stop trying to gatekeep superheroes! Ironman, Captain America, and almost all of the Marvel superheroes kill people! Cap killed Nazis for fucks sake and Tony killed middle eastern Arab terrorists while saving refugees and villagers! Wolverine depending on who you ask is either an anti hero or superhero and his claws are used to slice and stab people! Also Cosmonaut: The Last of Us Part 2 is a masterpiece because Fawk men! We need to kill all men and that sex scene with Abby is the most beautiful romance scene!

    Death To Fascist TrumpDeath To Fascist Trump2 ngày trước
  • In today's episode of "trying to not get mad over morons who can't stand a guy with opinions"

    that_last_word_user . exethat_last_word_user . exe3 ngày trước
  • You know, Tyler 1 can see why the games sucks but you can't see it?.

    Otro weon llamado SebaOtro weon llamado Seba3 ngày trước
  • I usually agree with you on everything. But this is just stupid

    SMD _BOISMD _BOI4 ngày trước
  • Ah another outlier video. You really like being in the opposite side of the majority i feel like youe doing it for views at this point. Unsubbed.

    Richard RojasRichard Rojas4 ngày trước
    • Did you just unsubscribe because he has a different opinion? Markus is literally the most honest reviewer to his opinion.

      Ogre FeetOgre Feet3 ngày trước
    • Ok.

      jeckjeck4 ngày trước
  • I might watch an edit of the cutscenes but I don't know when I'll ever be able to play it again.

    Glenn DaveyGlenn Davey6 ngày trước
  • The first TLOU game was a perfect story, and I use screenshots of its good level design for UX presentations. The second game however was ... challenging, in ways I was not expecting, both story and design. The first game I've replayed many times. The second game may very well have to be a once-only, I'm afraid. Thinking about playing TLOU2 again is like thinking about watching Requiem for a Dream again. Like, it's brilliant, and I get it, and maybe one day, but nah. Not yet... This game feels like it was made with that old director cannard of trying to "hurt" the audience, to "wound" them, in more ways than one, and it achieves that. TLOU2 feels like why I stopped watching The Walking Dead and confirmed that TLOU had the right touch to really affect player in a way that they didn't turn around and hate the game.

    Glenn DaveyGlenn Davey6 ngày trước
  • First thought is how does this guy have 1million subscribers...

    ygtcbee23ygtcbee236 ngày trước
    • He may be wrong but he’s entertaining

      Max TejadaMax Tejada3 ngày trước
    • Becuase his videos are entertaining to us.

      jeckjeck4 ngày trước
  • This guys starting to remind me of Armond white

    Dr. PugglesDr. Puggles7 ngày trước
    • @Griffon 7575 Lol

      Dr. PugglesDr. Puggles5 ngày trước
    • I find it really funny you saying this given you are a Dunkey fan and Dunkey liked the game too

      Griffon 7575Griffon 75755 ngày trước
  • moistcritikal have better take than this.

    red pepperred pepper7 ngày trước
  • Neil Druckmann isn't a good writer, you are just dumb.

    ǝqnʇnoʎ ɹWǝqnʇnoʎ ɹW7 ngày trước
  • This was not a story about forgiveness either. This was a story about tribalism. Where everyone who played the first game and to an extent anyone who played the first half of the second game, saw Joel and Ellie and yhe Jackson crew as their people. The game showed the sheer lengths and hypocracy people were willing to backflip through in their mind to justify the bad things their own side has done and paint themselves as the heros while ignoring that they are just as bad as the other side, and pretending they are good and righteous while the other side is evil. Even when that game literally makes you walk in the other sides shoes and shows you the good and the bad about them, which here is much the same as the Jackson crew. They expertly, and honestly way too on the nose sometimes gave us this throughout the game. And at the end of the day you had people who could break away from it and people who could not see past they killed one of us. I thought it was an apt game, considering the current state of Western politics, despite the makers of said game being ideologues in real life. People will willfully ignore and even defend bad behavior in their own, going so far as to only use nuance when it involves their own vindication, while painting the other side as a cartoon evil. Both Ellie and Abby do this the entire time, and in the real world everyone does as well. I just don’t see a lot of people talk about this aspect of the game. If the theme of the game is forgiveness, than it’s pretty cheap since 3 minutes before Ellie ‘forgives’ Abby, she’s ready to slit a child’s throat. There was no character arc in the road to forgiveness in either of them. Abby continues to give Ellie the benefit and let her live, but I mean she already got her revenge so a totally different scenario for her. The only moment of forgiveness comes in the last 10 minutes of the game when Ellie doesn’t kill Abby and we get a flashback. Fade to black. Also, the whole Tommy thing never sat well with me. He’s all like ‘you good with letting her live?’ earlier in the game telling her they have to let it go. Then because what, he got mildly wounded by her by the end he comes all the way to Ellie to basically shame her into getting that revenge at all costs. It’s a completely different Tommy at that point. I don’t know. I still thought the game was great though. Any game that can make people think this much, whether they hated it or loved it is a good game. And I thought it was visually stunning and the combat was fun. I’m not a masochist. But if people had played the first game as a father daughter story of Abby and her surgeon dad making their way to the hospital to finally make a cure for humanity and her father got murdered for it, and then the second game made players play as Ellie they’d have the same reaction. This is lost on almost everyone it seems like.

    MandrewsMandrews7 ngày trước
    • @Ogre Feet I used all my big boy words

      MandrewsMandrews3 ngày trước
    • Nice essay

      Ogre FeetOgre Feet3 ngày trước
  • Holy crap, the dislike ratio, Marcus you really hit a nerve with these people

    Christopher RajeckiChristopher Rajecki7 ngày trước
    • They're just clowns who can't stand someone with an other opinion about something they like/don't like.

      that_last_word_user . exethat_last_word_user . exe3 ngày trước
    • It isn't hard to do, they are so petty

      Joey TribianniJoey Tribianni4 ngày trước
  • “Joel isn’t a good person, why are people mad that he’s dead” *Arthur Morgan has entered the chat*

    The Halo ScrollsThe Halo Scrolls8 ngày trước
    • Joker has enter the chat

      Flaming KitsuneFlaming Kitsune19 giờ trước
    • Arthur was a better dude given the time period

      Joey TribianniJoey Tribianni4 ngày trước
  • My first thought after finishing the game was that it felt like events were written in the wrong order. You put that into words really well

    Allison WelkerAllison Welker8 ngày trước
  • Joel definitely wasn’t a hero or even a good person, and he did some very bad shit, regardless loved the character flaws n all, its hard to let go of a character that is so relatable

    Metal Gear Flacid 420Metal Gear Flacid 4208 ngày trước
  • this dude gathered 1.12million dumb subscribers, damn what a accomplishment.

    Chonky BoiChonky Boi8 ngày trước
    • Ok

      that_last_word_user . exethat_last_word_user . exe3 ngày trước
  • It’s not about quality, it’s about sending a message

    Jeremy GellerJeremy Geller8 ngày trước
  • Joker is as crazy as you can get but people still love him

    ZethremZethrem9 ngày trước
    • @Zethrem I’m just saying is that most audiences like to watch awful people, (like the joker) get want they deserve. In the animated Death in the family movie, Jokers final death is a wonderful scene, because it’s shows the person that he hurt the most get his revenge in a satisfying way. In a lot of Batman media, the Joker or other characters call Batman out on his no kill policy, and that he could save lives by killing the joker, which he never does, so when it happens, typically in those same stories, you root for the heroes to win. A lot of the times that’s just imprisoning him, but sometimes it’s death. Another similar example is Scar, from the Lion King. A fair amount of people really like scar as a character, he’s extremely comedic and charismatic in the film, but you also hate him. You want him to lose and that makes the death at the end satisfying. I think the point I’m trying to get at is that there is a difference between characters like Joker and Scar who viewers love to hate, and someone like Joel.

      Ogre FeetOgre Feet2 ngày trước
    • @Ogre Feet we dont want joker to die what are you on about bring up an actual point

      ZethremZethrem3 ngày trước
    • @Zethrem I mean this whole thing is because people are mad because Joel dies “unceremoniously”, but the thing is with joker, you want him to lose, and his death is always either shocking in a good way, or cathartic. He’s a villain, and thus a bad comparison to Joel in how the audience is supposed to view them.

      Ogre FeetOgre Feet3 ngày trước
    • @Ogre Feet whats your point just because someone dies in a show doesnt mean people stop loving him

      ZethremZethrem3 ngày trước
    • That’s kinda a shitty comparison because Joker dies in like 40% of the shows/movies he’s in.

      Ogre FeetOgre Feet3 ngày trước
  • Yeah i unsubscribed

    ZethremZethrem9 ngày trước
    • Imagine unsubscribing because someone has an opinion

      Griffon 7575Griffon 75755 ngày trước
  • I think cosmonaut is right, you guys are dumb and at first i thought Joel was a good guy, i was wrong.

    Wiktor TataraWiktor Tatara9 ngày trước
  • I knew his opinion would be stupid, but i didn't expect this much 😐

    risistincerisistince9 ngày trước
    • @Ogre Feet In a word, yes.

      Karl WilkerKarl Wilker2 ngày trước
    • @Karl Wilker do you like the game?

      Ogre FeetOgre Feet3 ngày trước
    • @Joey Tribianni About the game as a whole? Sure. It felt like my heart was being crushed between two stones, but also like Naughty Dog wanted me to feel that way. It wasn't perfect. The new characters, like Dina, Jesse, and Abby's crew... exist. They weren't great, but served their purpose. I did enjoy Lev a lot though. The shift to Abby's perspective was jarring and I think that the beginning as a whole could be made more impactful if Joel and Ellie had been together instead of Ellie and Dina. I felt like how they basically split up the story so that the first half was Ellie's and the second half was Abby's was weird. Maybe they could have done something like "Ellie, Seattle Day 1" then "Abby, Seattle Day 1", then "Ellie, Seattle Day 2" and so on. That being said, I really felt the pain that Ellie went through, especially after torturing Nora. That scene where we see all of her cuts and bruises and Dina comforts her is one of my favorite scenes in the game. I also somehow found myself liking Abby a lot, and understanding her. That final fight against the Seraphites was intense. Then we have the part where Ellie and Dina are at their house with Jesse Junior, and that was literally the biggest whiplash I've gotten from a game. All-in-all a great part of the game. In the final fight it was very hard to root for either side, which was obviously intended. I just wanted them to stop hurting each other.

      Karl WilkerKarl Wilker3 ngày trước
    • @Karl Wilker Can you form your own opinion?

      Joey TribianniJoey Tribianni3 ngày trước
    • @Joey Tribianni Did you see the like to dis-like ratio?

      Karl WilkerKarl Wilker3 ngày trước
  • People aren’t mad because they killed a main character. They’re mad that Joel didn’t have a redemption arc because he was a likable fucking character that people wanted a satisfying conclusion for. One flashback scene AFTER HE DIED of him confessing how he lied does not make up for the actual shit that he did. It’s like if Arthur Morgan died right before getting TB.

    PhilburrPhilburr9 ngày trước
    • Replace “People aren’t” with “I’m not” and that’s fair, the majority of people who don’t like the game just don’t like he died

      Ogre FeetOgre Feet3 ngày trước
    • Everyone liked the first one cause of how "realistic the characters were" yknow what's realistic? People dying with unsolved shit left behind. Yes this is a story but it's a story that's grounded in some form of reality. Imo the game works because of how fast he dies, we get nothing and that's the motivation.

      Joey TribianniJoey Tribianni4 ngày trước
  • Something I love about the series is that it's a series where every choice a character makes hurts them in some way. There is no good choice. Sam and his brother went back for Joel and Ellie and that resulted in them both dying. Joel chose to save Ellie which go tin him killed. Ellie chose to go after Abby which caused her to end up with nothing. Abby chose to kill Joel which got all her friends killed. I mean hell, Joel choosing to save his daughter Sarah resulted in bad things happening

    MCU HQMCU HQ10 ngày trước
  • Nah people are not dumb, may be you are.. so Plz stop watching his video

    raymond reiz bongraymond reiz bong10 ngày trước
    • No I don't think I will

      that_last_word_user . exethat_last_word_user . exe3 ngày trước
    • Great English buddy

      Joey TribianniJoey Tribianni4 ngày trước
    • Joel does not have death immunity

      Digit TollDigit Toll10 ngày trước
  • Enjoying a story ot not is not a subject of intelligence. Just as well, opinions aren't facts because they are said by a youtuber and any story you will ever hear, will have plenty of interpretations. This guy and his fans are not very bright. You know - the morons in the comments who are too stupid to grasp that having a different opinion isn't the same as being "hurt" - the ones that think their criticisms and opinions are fine, but any other is "whining".

    Egglord SasukeEgglord Sasuke10 ngày trước
    • This the dumbest comment I've ever fucking seen

      Joey TribianniJoey Tribianni4 ngày trước
    • this comment sounds like whining to me

      HazschHazsch10 ngày trước
  • still famous on the title bravery

    Hiruy AbebawHiruy Abebaw11 ngày trước
  • this is the most dislikes ive ever seen

    Patrick StarPatrick Star11 ngày trước
    • Go look up VIworld Rewind 2018

      Sebastian WernqvistSebastian Wernqvist9 ngày trước
  • OOF that like/dislike ratio

    Miranda MMiranda M11 ngày trước
    • Tlou2 haters are petty af

      Joey TribianniJoey Tribianni4 ngày trước
  • And you weren't here in Italy. Here we criticized the fact that the main characters weren't hot

    ZenithZenith11 ngày trước
    • Yeah what was up with that?

      Digit TollDigit Toll10 ngày trước
  • Joel is the most beloved character in history of gaming idc you can't change my mind

    MINSHU SINGHMINSHU SINGH11 ngày trước
    • Being a beloved character doesn't mean he is a good person in the world of the game.

      Karl WilkerKarl Wilker3 ngày trước
    • I guess Meat Boy, Link and Soap can just go fuck themselves since your opinion is superior, sarcasm intended

      Digit TollDigit Toll10 ngày trước
  • all the ppl in this comment section raving over "joel isn't a beloved character" are driving me up the wall i get that in technicality he is a beloved character, but it was *pretty damn obvious* what marcus was trying to convey. it's like the point he was making just flew over these morons' heads and they sprinted to the comment section to cry because joel is their favorite character.

    chloe vande kampchloe vande kamp11 ngày trước
    • Spittin

      that_last_word_user . exethat_last_word_user . exe3 ngày trước
  • I feel like you are so right, but also so wrong about this at the same time. You are clearly mistaking the idea of a beloved CHARACTER with a beloved HERO. Joel is not a hero, but a flawed man. And people are mad because they had to wait 7 years to play as Joel again, just to see him get his head caved in with a golf club. And also the other stuff like the unconnected stories. Honestly had this maybe had been the third game instead of the second. With some tweaking, It may not have been as bad.

    Jared LarsonJared Larson11 ngày trước
  • It's also not as good as Twitter and the sham award shows are concerned... so... 🤷‍♂️

    R. H.R. H.11 ngày trước
  • I dislike the argument of making people do bad things forcefully is a good way of emotionally manipulating the player. In a game like Undertale, all the decisions are made by the player. I think I felt more guilty when knocking over the bowl of monster candies in Undertale than when Ellie killed Vita, or anyone else. Because they were all fucking killed in cutscenes.

    TheRealBingusTheRealBingus11 ngày trước
    • @crazyinsane500 ...what? you believe that all choice was removed from the game because it was anticipated that players wouldn't like Abby? that's unfortunate to hear that druckmann treated his staff in such a way, but i don't see how that relates to the, brace yourself, *artistic choice* of removing players from the *predetermined* narrative. choice games are meant to be choice games. this is not a choice game. like i said, not all narratives need to or should include the player. that's what gameplay is for. and it really doesn't matter if it's a "last of us story." the *type of story* that the last of us is does not need to cater to its players' choices and what they want the ending to be. this isn't a happy story where you get to choose the outcome, and that's intentional. edit: i'd also like to know where you got that info on druckmann because i'm trying to read up on it but can't find an article anywhere. would appreciate a link

      chloe vande kampchloe vande kamp8 ngày trước
    • @chloe vande kamp Neil Druckmann fired people during a pandemic to protect Abby from in-house criticism. That is the mindset behind these "artistic choices." It's clear the reason why, on top of all the changes from the predecessor, there wasn't a choice system is because the creator knew people wouldn't like his OC. Just like how Abby had to be absent from the marketing. And, like I said, this isn't a Last of Us game or story. It only uses Last of Us aesthetics. You could replace Ellie and Joel with Jake Conway and his dad and the story is the exact same.

      crazyinsane500crazyinsane5009 ngày trước
    • @crazyinsane500 i don't see as to why a game like TLOU2 would need a choice system? not all games are meant to involve the player in their narratives. naughtydog didn't have to make the bold changes to the game that they did. i can guarentee the majority of tlou fans would have been happy with a game similar to the first, but they took the leap to make these artistic choices, which in itself says all you need to know about why the game doesn't include player choice in its story element. it's an artistic choice to tell this story in a specific way. giving the players choice in the narrative portion of the game would almost definitely stray from the cruelty and coldness of the apocalyptical story. tlou isn't about the players, it never has been.

      chloe vande kampchloe vande kamp10 ngày trước
    • @Todd Howard Well while ludo narrative dissonance is an issue, I'm moreso saying that if they're changing everything besides the core gameplay itself from the first game, they don't have a good excuse to not give player story-based choices. At it's core, this is a generic badly written zombie shooter. Switch the names and faces and it changes nothing about the story because of significant personality changes and a departure from the storytelling methods of the first. It's like how Metal Gear Survive clearly isn't a Metal Gear game, despite using the license and surface-level aesthetics. TLOU2 is it's own game sufficiently divorced from the first, there's nothing keeping them from adding in a choice system along with all the other changes.

      crazyinsane500crazyinsane50010 ngày trước
    • @crazyinsane500 yeah I agree. There's a hefty dose of ludo narrative dissonance. I still enjoyed the game. What I took for it, was that your choices don't matter. Last of us 1 is the same way, but people only hate 2 fsr

      Todd HowardTodd Howard10 ngày trước
  • A beloved character doesn’t have to be a hero. You can love an anti hero and villain. Joel is a hero in the fact the Doctor would have failed...vaccines are for virus not parasitic fungus...if a vaccine could have been they could have used the regular fungus...or Ellie’s blood would have contained antibodies ..so in that regard Joel was a hero because that Doctor was delusional The human race is fucked there’s billions of infected running around no vaccine is going to stop that, the infected keep evolving I just wish someone would have shined a light on that reality to make Joel have a logical point that Ellie’s sacrifice would have been meaningless

    Piper HayzePiper Hayze11 ngày trước
  • That like to dislike ratio is so bad.

    Carlos OrtizCarlos Ortiz12 ngày trước
  • I have no clue, where you heard that people think this story is bad, because it makes the player do bad things... It’s bad, because of ludonarrative dissonance. As Ellie, you walk around murdering left and right where you don’t have to and then you spare the one person you actually have a reason to kill. These whole 30 hours of gameplay turn meaningless as soon as Ellie spares Abby, because the story and the gameplay contradict each other...

    pisalexeypisalexey13 ngày trước
    • @Roe Prequel with Joel would be too much of a fan service, ND won't do it, especially with the approach they have and the things that were said, as long as Neil is the writer/director, I highly doubt it

      Jewish FrogJewish Frog6 ngày trước
    • @Jewish Frog My biggest issue with Part 2's story was the pacing. Playing all of Ellie's side then abruptly switching to Abby broke the momentum of the story. I would have preferred to switch between them day by day from the start slowly building up to the theater showdown. Then the game let's you pick who to play as to determine the winner which would lead to different endings. They're apparently making Last of Us 3. Hopefully they give us fresh characters to play with and get to know. A prequel with Joel before meeting Ellie might be good too.

      RoeRoe6 ngày trước
    • @Roe I just wish we could've gotten something better, I've heard this one amazing rewrite, it's a video on youtube, it honestly made my eyes wet just by listening to it. The story ND presented could work and could be great, but it just wasn't, it didn't work, they failed on too many steps at least for me. Few fundamental changes could make it a lot better and they wouldn't even have to change that much in terms of story, just a bit different structure and pacing could do a lot.

      Jewish FrogJewish Frog6 ngày trước
    • @Jewish Frog Yeah, I think that Naughty Dog's story is what it is. Not the best ever, but it's for them to tell.

      RoeRoe6 ngày trước
    • @Roe Again, it's just what you think.

      Jewish FrogJewish Frog6 ngày trước
  • Tlou2 isn’t bad it’s just bad if you compare it too the first game imo

    Da TigerDa Tiger13 ngày trước
    • @Da Tiger From the end of the first game. Both of them changed quite a bit throughout their journey to the Fireflies. Joel obviously isn't going to be the same loner afraid of attachment, and Ellie isn't going to be the same bubbly teenage girl. All of them really. I didn't like Mel all that much though. Jordan was just kinda there. Owen and Manny were pretty interesting though. Owen was actually one of the most sympathetic characters in the story. I was pleasantly surprised to discover that Abby was not a psychopath.

      James LanierJames Lanier12 ngày trước
    • @James Lanier from the first game?! What characters did you find interesting In part 2? I found all the characters in the first game good none stood out for me in part 2 at all. I liked Dina a little and Jesse but that’s about it, Abby was a psychopath, and none of her crew even felt like real people they were just kinda there.

      Da TigerDa Tiger12 ngày trước
    • @Da Tiger I don't really understand how Joel or Ellie acted out of character to be honest.

      James LanierJames Lanier12 ngày trước
    • @James Lanier for me Joel, Ellie, even tommy to a lesser degree as he wasn’t even prominent in the first game. It’s all opinion anyways I didn’t hate part 2 I just feel part 2 wasn’t as compelling didn’t have as interesting characters or special moments that the first one did. Joel dying wasn’t huge for me although it was done kind of poor to me but I felt nothing in part 2 matched the Joel/Ellie relationship that made the first game good to me.

      Da TigerDa Tiger12 ngày trước
    • @Da Tiger Who acted out of character?

      James LanierJames Lanier12 ngày trước
  • COSMONAUT is a 🤬🤬🤬

    HisseinHissein13 ngày trước
    • Bro I didn't know COSMONAUT is a 🤬🤬🤬, thanks for letting me open my third eye.

      Todd HowardTodd Howard10 ngày trước
    • Joel does not have death immunity

      Digit TollDigit Toll10 ngày trước
  • Can you imagine a world where the last of us 2 came out and everyone played the fucking game instead of just seeing how Joel died and saying "Oh Joel die, this game sucks and has nothing interesting to it"

    LATS2005LATS200513 ngày trước
    • Thank you dark souls, very cool!

      Todd HowardTodd Howard10 ngày trước
  • If, tomorrow, I tell the press that, like, a John Marston will get shot, or an Arthur Morgan will be blown up, nobody panics, because it's all "part of the plan". But when I say that one little old Joel will die, well then everyone loses their minds!!

    Bretton JamesBretton James14 ngày trước
  • Haven't seen a game worse than that. It's vomit inducing.

    OrelmanOrelman14 ngày trước
  • Man he really beat the shit out of that strawman he built

    MurloughMurlough14 ngày trước
  • Who said it was bad

    Caution KillFeedCaution KillFeed14 ngày trước
    • Have you not seen the media? A lot of people hate this game

      Digit TollDigit Toll10 ngày trước
  • We are mad because they made ellie look as bad as possible and abby as good as possible so we feel good for ellie not killing her they force us kill abbys dog and then play fetch with her they make us beat the shit out of our favorite character with a hulk shaped new character and we literally dont give a fuck about abbys friends they are already fucking dead . The gamed story is just messy . And you call people dumb for calling this game bad I think that your dumb. “Joel isnt a beloved character” dumb is the person that doesnt know what beloved means

    Aram MazhariAram Mazhari15 ngày trước
    • Abby is literally depicted beating a fan favorite character to death. And you think this is making her look as good as possible? Even after she tries to walk a new path focused on protecting some kids rather than seeking revenge, she nearly relapses and almost kills Dina. And you think this is depicting her as good as possible. Are you okay, dude? Both Abby and Ellie are depicted as being capable of compassion and cruelty.

      James LanierJames Lanier14 ngày trước
  • I think you dont know what beloved really means it mean loved and of course joel is loved and is many people favorite characters.

    Aram MazhariAram Mazhari15 ngày trước
    • why is everyone in this comment section getting stuck on that phrasing. did u just not pick up on what he was conveying? poor word choice sure but it was pretty obvious what he meant lmaooo

      chloe vande kampchloe vande kamp11 ngày trước
  • I agree, people are just dumb

    Kristian WKristian W15 ngày trước
  • The death of a character people like isn't why people dislike the game. A liked character can have a good death. People get mad when a character's death is used for shock value. Anybody who has watched Game of Thrones' later seasons can confirm that. When a writer wants an event in a story to be meaningful, it has to be earned.

    KyyooKyyoo16 ngày trước
    • Well Joel’s death isn’t shock value, it’s the driving point for the story

      Digit TollDigit Toll10 ngày trước
    • @Kyyoo "If it moves the story along, a shocking death is fine. That's why the Red Wedding worked. That's why Joel's death worked." There aren't actually these arbitrary rules that say central characters aren't allowed to die early on. A time skip doesn't change anything either. Joel hasn't changed all that much from where he was at the end of the first game, but even if he had, it doesn't matter. His character was still expanded upon further in flashback sequences that recontextualize the present time events. The timing your looking for doesn't matter because that's not how death works in reality, but this story still aligns with the standard you set. Joel dies right as Ellie decided to try and forgive him for what he did. That's incredibly impactful, don't you think? When could his death have possibly mattered more?

      James LanierJames Lanier13 ngày trước
    • @James Lanier It seems like the only way you know how to interract is to dismiss and disagree. Tell me why you’re right beyond me just being wrong. Please, tell me why Joel’s death works.

      KyyooKyyoo13 ngày trước
    • @Kyyoo You have no information to offer.

      James LanierJames Lanier13 ngày trước
    • @James Lanier Well unfortunately when you’re just doing your best to disagree with every point someone makes you’re not going to absorb much of the actual information.

      KyyooKyyoo13 ngày trước
  • I believe the idea of the two stories not being directly connected is to show that these two people are two different people. Every aspect of their lives doesn't revolve around each other instead we see what survival is like from different perspectives and we get to know personally characters who we just kill otherwise.

    ZeGamerGuysZeGamerGuys16 ngày trước
  • Even if Joel is a beloved character.... So? He could have been the nicest guy in the world but it doesn't mean a story cant kill him. Good people die all the time. Bad people die all the time. People in the middle die all the time. Anyone can be killed but I can understand the reason Abby killed Joel so I don't think that is such a bad thing.

    TheZebbgaTheZebbga16 ngày trước
  • That's why I don't Fuck with those games

    LeafyLeafy17 ngày trước
  • Beloved bi-ˈləvd ADJECTIVE dearly loved : dear to the heart our beloved grandmother

    Tayemaster !Tayemaster !17 ngày trước
  • If I'm dumb, you're missing a few chromosomes.

    Molecule MindMolecule Mind17 ngày trước
  • I agree with you

    khfankhfan17 ngày trước
  • I didn't mind Joel dying, I just wish it was towards the end of the game. Kinda like how Zack Fair and Arthur Morgan died

    CryptoCrypto18 ngày trước
  • Late, but when he says Joel isn't a beloved character, he probably means that Joel isn't meant to be a beloved character. Like yes tons of people love him but he wasn't written to be a character beloved by all, he ended up that way because he was portrayed as a sympathetic anti-hero who did a lot of bad shit but had understandable motives And people love that shit, so i kinda get what he was saying, he never said that people didn't love Joel, he just implied that Joel wasn't a character who was meant to be "beloved"

    Briar RoseBriar Rose18 ngày trước
  • I didn’t hate it because of Joel, or the ending, but the overall game isn’t as good as it could have been. If they killed Joel halfway in, that’s an improvement. If Elle realized forgiveness was a better solution before the final fight, that’s an improvement....but you also gave it a 6.5/10, so you clearly agree the game isn’t as good as it should be....but we’re dumb

    Alex WheelerAlex Wheeler19 ngày trước
  • “Joel isn’t a beloved character” Well when you put it like that, I guess I do have to hate him now! I’m glad someone finally told me that my opinion is objectively wrong.

    Shadow Of LightShadow Of Light20 ngày trước
    • @Digit Toll I think more people saying it makes it much more significant, but that’s just me

      Shadow Of LightShadow Of Light10 ngày trước
    • @Shadow Of Light Well it would be significant if you weren’t the 278th person to say it

      Digit TollDigit Toll10 ngày trước
    • @Digit Toll Woah woah woah, who mentioned Joel dying? I was just focused on the idiocy of the claim that Joel isn’t a beloved character, as if I now have to hate him because he’s a bad guy

      Shadow Of LightShadow Of Light10 ngày trước
    • Well here’s the thing...you kind of are. What made you think Joel was immune to dying?

      Digit TollDigit Toll10 ngày trước
  • I think people just overreacted the way Joel is dead. People just looking for Disney kind of way that Joel should die like Cinderella's dad died on his bed.

    yan bin lohyan bin loh20 ngày trước
  • “People wrongfully believe this is a story about protecting your loved ones no matter the cost” immediately follows up with how Joel protects ellie because he desperately doesn’t want to lose another daughter

    AtTheHelmAtTheHelm20 ngày trước
  • Or you're just an asshole who thinks he's better than others just a thought though :3

    Elmher HerreraElmher Herrera20 ngày trước
    • You’re acting the same way Elmher

      Digit TollDigit Toll10 ngày trước
    • bruh it ain't that serious he just saying his opinion. No one said u shouldn't like or dislike the game.

      That GuyThat Guy19 ngày trước
  • CJ after watching this video: Cj: wait, am I a beloved character? Beloved? What does it mean to be loved? What is love?

    STORM ARTSTORM ART21 ngày trước
    • @Digit Toll "honestly not, the thing is I had watched a San Andreas video just a little while ago and maybe because of that I couldn't think of anything else. It is by no means a well thought out comment but it does the job of getting me back to the things I had watched somewhere in my lifetime and honestly enjoyed or hated whenever a kind gentlemen such as you likes or replies to it... Its not perfect, but it still works." THANK YOU🐒

      STORM ARTSTORM ART10 ngày trước
    • Do you honestly think GTA is the best concept?

      Digit TollDigit Toll10 ngày trước
  • S T F U M O R O N ! 🤡

    Adam AtlasAdam Atlas21 ngày trước
    • Welp you're 100% 12 years old

      WHATaOGWHATaOG20 ngày trước
    • Wow you really owned him

      Dangerous JDangerous J21 ngày trước
  • Let me get this straight the theme of the game is forgiveness despite Abby not forgiving and Ellie forgiving at the very end after she’s killed a thousand people ins Seattle

    Terry LiamakerosTerry Liamakeros21 ngày trước
    • @Terry Liamakeros No, it doesn't. The tone showcases that people are capable of evil and bad things can happen to good people. It makes no value judgment on it whatsoever. And no, it is better for the vaccine to exist. Objectively and blatantly better because the infection is bad. That's all the information you need. It's better for insulin to exist than for it not to despite how companies exploit people's need for it. Also, what are you on about regarding socialism. Capitalism has killed more people in the past decade alone than socialism has in the last century. I'm truly sorry that you have such a cynical view of humanity, but the fact of the matter is that we're a social species and the more cooperative among us tend to survive. That's why the WLF and Seraphites are killing each other and people in Jackson are mostly fine.

      James LanierJames Lanier15 ngày trước
    • @James Lanier i guess but I’m saying the tone of the game leans towards my side then yours we get five minutes in Jackson and the rest of the game is in the hell hole city Seattle. And it isn’t necessarily better for it to exist or not it depends on how people use however in mankind’s history socialism has always killed people in droves due to the power struggle and the scars and wlf aren’t particularly good people so I don’t think it would end up like Jackson. Let’s be honest if shit hit the fan in Jackson there would be a power struggle people will do terrible things when pushed far enough to the extreme

      Terry LiamakerosTerry Liamakeros15 ngày trước
    • @Terry Liamakeros It didn't pierce her lung. We also don't know if Ellie's arm was broken. It could've just been dislocated. Both suck, for sure, but it's survivable in either case. Killing people with an armored car isn't capitalism. Capitalism is an economic system in which production and distribution is driven by profit. The institutions that govern capitalism no longer exist in the world of TLOU. You're right to recognize hierarchies of power to be similar to capitalism, as capitalism is based on preserving them, but it's not quite the same thing. In a post apocalyptic world, how would you power an entire town? How would you grow enough food to feed thousands of people? The same way people did before the apocalypse. It'd just be a lot harder. Jackson got a hydroelectric power plant working. Why can't the Fireflies get a production facility working? It would be very difficult no doubt, but it's definitely possible. The vaccine could certainly be used in dark ways, but it's always better for it to exist than it not to. Imagine who would be alive if they were vaccinated. Riley, Tess, Sam. Everything can be used for nefarious purposes. That's why it's up to people to make sure it isn't. By your argument, farming isn't worth it because an excess of food could be used to exert power over others.

      James LanierJames Lanier15 ngày trước
    • @James Lanier when she gets an arrow that pierced through her lung from lev and is pregnant but survives with Ellie who’s arm is broken. And I do think capitalism would show it’s face in an apocalyptic world I mean the hunters use capitalism when they have an armoured car they don’t use it to protect people they kill people with it. And in an apocalyptic world how would you mass produce it they didn’t mention a laboratory it was general hospital. I want people to have better lives I wanted Joel and Ellie to live a happy life and then she was gonna try to forgive him but then Abby played golf with him. The violence and death outweighs the good in the game. I mean look at lev sure him and Abby save each other but at what cost. Levs people get fucked and Abby is forced to kill her own. The game makes the tone of the world very dark and I think a vaccine would be used in dark ways as well.

      Terry LiamakerosTerry Liamakeros15 ngày trước
    • @Terry Liamakeros No one has ever made a good one. Don't worry, I've got evidence. Here's the transcript of the surgeon's recorder. "April 28th. Marlene was right. The girl's infection is like nothing I've ever seen. The cause of her immunity is uncertain. As we've seen in all past cases, the antigenic titers of the patient's Cordyceps remain high in both the serum and the cerebrospinal fluid. Blood cultures taken from the patient rapidly grow Cordyceps in fungal-media in the lab... however white blood cell lines, including percentages and absolute-counts, are completely normal. There is no elevation of pro-inflammatory cytokines, and an MRI of the brain shows no evidence of fungal-growth in the limbic regions, which would normally accompany the prodrome of aggression in infected patients. We must find a way to replicate this state under laboratory conditions. We're about to hit a milestone in human history equal to the discovery of penicillin. After years of wandering in circles, we're about to come home, make a difference, and bring the human race back into control of its own destiny. All of our sacrifices and the hundreds of men and women who've bled for this cause, or worse, will not be in vain." See? They had past cases of infection, not immunity. Ellie's immunity was unique, and it was the last thing they needed to make a vaccine. I don't know how you can determine whether or not the death and destruction outweigh the acts of kindness. Is it still not worth it to try? Don't you want other people to have better lives? Jackson is a pretty nice place, for instance. Wouldn't be so bad to live there. And the people in TLOU actually have a benefit over us in terms of vaccine distribution. They don't have to worry about capitalism. We do, which is why we're still even in this pandemic. When should Dina have died twice? When Jordan was trying to subdue her for interrogation or when she was nearly killed by Abby?

      James LanierJames Lanier15 ngày trước
  • i know its been months. but i wanted the buzz to die down and now finally finished this. i feel like luke stephens and you combine to a perfect critique. both honest and (moreorless)objective. both pointing out the flaws of the game as well as its strengths. both not buying into the gaming scene absurd entitlement issues. one critique too long and detailed, the other just a bit short. but man, can i agree with both of you guys. in the end, your title says it all. thanks heaps.

    nurrinurri22 ngày trước
  • Joel isn't a beloved character" Same video "Everyone dislikes it because they killed off Joel" I'm confused than why are people mad in your eyes are me mad a character we don't love and care about was killed off by a shitty much less interesting character for shock value dispite all the marketing of the game implying Joel would be a decent part of the game

    dandymandandyman22 ngày trước
    • You’re a little late. Hundreds have already said it. Also...Joel was never immune to dying

      Digit TollDigit Toll10 ngày trước
  • so this guy made a 20 min video based on the wrong definition of "beloved?"

    noirnoir22 ngày trước
  • Joel never was a Hero, i dont think everyone believe that, all he ever was, was being a Father, nothing more. He is like the Constantine of the Injustice, he is not here to save the World, just to save his Daughter, and thats why we loved because he wasnt a Hero, just a father. The fact that everyone loved him makes him a "beloved character".... i think you misunderstand beloved with the word Cute?

    Bruce DoyleBruce Doyle23 ngày trước
  • I'm pretty sure the game's script and story direction is dumb.. actually the script is embarrassingly stupid.

    JohnnyBoy7267JohnnyBoy726723 ngày trước
  • People aren't mad because they killed off Joel, they are mad at how they killed off Joel. This shit would never happen. Joel's actions just don't ad up at all. This guy has literally lived for 24 years in an apocalypse. In the first game he trusted nobody but Ellie and his brother. Remember that scene where he says: "He ain't even hurt" and just runs the guy over? That is the Joel I know. Not a Joel that goes back to a bunch of strangers at a weird camp and tells them his name and where he is from. Makes no sense.

    Jimmy InfamousJimmy Infamous24 ngày trước
    • @Jimmy Infamous Joel followed Henry seconds after Henry told him he was part of a larger group and they were going to a place where the rest of their group was planning on meeting up. Why not? Tommy told Abby both of their names during the escape to build a bit of trust in a tense situation. Also, you understand that Jackson functions on trade and recruitment, right? That's how it grew so large. Can't really do that if no one knows where it is. There are enough defenders and strong walls to protect the town.

      James LanierJames Lanier20 ngày trước
    • @James Lanier I get your point but I still think it was just a dumb thing to do. Henry was with a kid (just like Joel, so that made him trust them) and there were only two of them so if shit was about to go down I don't think it would be something Joel and Ellie couldn't handle. As for your other point yes they didn't have anywhere else to go after they saved Abby but why the hell did they tell everybody their names and that they're from Jackson? Just dumb af especially after 24 bloody years of experience. Tommy's action after Joel's death were also stupid and don't make sense.

      Jimmy InfamousJimmy Infamous20 ngày trước
    • Except for Tess who he met after the outbreak. Oh and Henry and Sam who he trusted after a two minute conversation. Then Henry abandons him to save his brother, and Joel gets mad about that when they meet again later, but that's also resolved after a short conversation. Joel's a bit more complex than someone who can recognize a hunter ambush. Not to mention the chalet where Abby's group was staying was the only safe place for Joel and Tommy to go to escape the horde and find shelter from the blizzard.

      James LanierJames Lanier20 ngày trước
  • this rather shitty defense if the last of us 2 from a guy that i think is pretty good at breaking down media is about all i needed to know what to expect from this game

    Christopher FranceChristopher France25 ngày trước
  • While the game has issues, I absolutely loved it over the original. Both games are great, but part 2 feels more consistent in some parts. I see both parts of this argument, as I love both the games. Overall great game, but while part 2s gameplay is better, 1 has the better story.

    Bubble BobblerBubble Bobbler25 ngày trước
  • "Joel is not a beloved character. He's a murderer" You do realize people can like murderers, right? These things are not mutually exclusive.

    MaloTheYoshiMaloTheYoshi26 ngày trước
  • This game is the worst sequel ever made

    Deep SpelleDeep Spelle26 ngày trước
    • Crimes of Grindlewald: *chuckles*

      Digit TollDigit Toll10 ngày trước
    • @Euqirne Nodnacse I came back just to see you, nice to know your still doing well

      RevenantRevenant23 ngày trước
    • How?

      Euqirne NodnacseEuqirne Nodnacse25 ngày trước
  • It just didn't deserve GOTY in any way. Shoulda gone to Ghost or Doom

    JustKosaJustKosa26 ngày trước
    • @Euqirne Nodnacse Isn't this all about opinion anyways lol. It's not like all the critics are mindless computers that analyze every single fiber of a game and decides that it deserves GOTY lol

      JustKosaJustKosa25 ngày trước
    • Why not? How are they any more deserving unless this is just your opinion.

      Euqirne NodnacseEuqirne Nodnacse25 ngày trước
  • so many logical fallacies in this video it hurts my head

    Patrick TrznadelPatrick Trznadel26 ngày trước
  • 15:43 I think they hijacked Duke Nukem

    John HowardJohn Howard26 ngày trước
    • I think you mean Duke’s actor

      Digit TollDigit Toll10 ngày trước
  • The gameplay is the same shit as the last one and the story is severely unsatisfying being unable to make a player want to build a relationship with the characters we’re not dumb, you are. 👍 And Joel doesn’t kill people JUST because he wants to tf? Show an example. This dude don’t even know what he’s talking about tf.

    TerminalBoneCancerTerminalBoneCancer27 ngày trước
  • I like how I immediately went to the comments when I clicked on this video

    FatalicoFatalico28 ngày trước
  • Like Joel was not a good person but I liked him a lot

    Sam LongSam Long28 ngày trước
  • I’m obviously late to the party playing both games this month and not when they came out. But I completely agree with everything cosmonaut said. The story is brilliant. The flaws he are actual issues, not just a beloved character dying. The world is not a good place, and it certainly would not be in a post apocalyptic one. The first game seemed pretty pointless to me, travelling all that way to not even find a cure bothered me. Now the same could be said about this game, travelling all that way to let Abby live, but the desire to get revenge fuels Elle’s story, whilst Abby’s story makes you realise that her and Elle aren’t too different. The subtle messages also make this game brilliant too

    FroggyBladesFroggyBlades29 ngày trước
    • @Revenant Yes. Remember when they were at the Jackson power plant and Ellie stole a horse? Joel and Tommy had to go after her.

      James LanierJames Lanier20 ngày trước
    • @James Lanier "running away in Jackson"

      RevenantRevenant20 ngày trước
    • @Revenant It is fundamentally dishonest to frame the relationship between Joel and Ellie as a subplot when it's literally the focus of the story. It's not a subplot either. Ellie running away in Jackson is a subplot. Their relationship is what the whole story is about.

      James LanierJames Lanier20 ngày trước
    • @James Lanier and sub plots can affect the story too. Nice job james

      RevenantRevenant20 ngày trước
    • @James Lanier yes and like I said the plot of the game is to try and get a cure. Sub plots don't always have to be less important

      RevenantRevenant20 ngày trước
  • I used to despise it with a passion and commented about how ND have destroyed their career and all that bullshit but now I actually don’t mind it and quite enjoy it. I was one of the guys who played TLOU1 in 2013 on PS3 when it released then and absolutely fell in love with the story, characters, gameplay and everything. When the second game came out and Joel died, I’m not gonna lie, I cried like a baby and was so angry I didn’t give the rest of the game a fair chance even though I completed it. I’m gonna replay it now for the second time with an open mind. While I think the ending could be done better, the rest of the game is really fucking good. I get the message they were trying to portray and the sub par ending could be resolved with a third and final game. I absolutely understand people who hate this game because I hated this game for SO long. But if you remove the idea of Joel being the main character/hero (which took me a year and a half to do), it’s a pretty good but depressing game. Again, I totally understand that people hate it, but maybe, just maybe, you could give it another chance. The video that finally swayed me was one called ‘The Unmistakable Humanity of The Last Of Us 2’. Please watch it. It’s incredible. Thanks for reading this comment 👍

    North StarNorth StarTháng trước
    • @Euqirne Nodnacse probably because you enjoy video games more than church? Some other people would say the opposite.

      RevenantRevenant23 ngày trước
    • @YGN Light The characters in TLOU2 were more redeemable than most of the characters in the bible.

      James LanierJames Lanier29 ngày trước
    • @YGN Light yeah id say its deeper than the bible playing this game definitely was a more memorable experience than being dragged to church.

      Euqirne NodnacseEuqirne Nodnacse29 ngày trước
    • No it's a fucking Video game Not bible It's not that deep

      YGN LightYGN Light29 ngày trước
  • You clearly misunderstood why people were annoyed at the game and characters cosmo

    Doom SlayerDoom SlayerTháng trước
  • oh man this video was bug spray and the comments are all the angry roaches scuttling out from their hiding places.

    S CS CTháng trước
  • I felt like the pacing wouldve been better if you did Abby side first and then switched over to Ellie. Start Abby story after she kills Joel so we dont know. Then you spend the time knowing her and the characters and then you get to the point of meeting Ellie and then switch to her

    KaosKontrolKaosKontrolTháng trước
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